stripping down nursery stock

[craigw60]

Stripping out nursery stock is a very valid way to create bonsai but it must be remembered that to make a convincing tree using this method can take as long as growing a tree from seed or cutting. When starting a bonsai using this method I always think that rather than removing all the unwanted branches it is much better to have an idea of the eventual design but to leave many more branches than are required to achieve that design. These branches can be removed over time but in the interim period could serve to thicken the trunk and develop the root base. To spend a few years developing the bulk of the tree will hasten the process of creating a convincing bonsai.
Craig

[MelaQuin]

Valid point if you want to increase the trunk size but if the trunk size if basically what is wanted, then stripping to a few branches and developing from there can work well. As they say, there are many ways to accomplish a goal and one should never be single minded.

[Bretts]

Could you give us an example Craig

[craigw60]

I was really thinking of the Ian Edwards cedars I have. These trees have taken so many years to loose that just wired nursery stock look. If Ian had left more branching for a few years they would have improved enormously. I have also seen a lot of those staked juniper procumbens which have been stripped back to minimum branching, these plants take ages to develop and that would happen more quickly with extra growth. There is another classic example appeared today with Boomers callistemon.
Will post some pics tomorrow.
Craig

[craigw60]

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Brett asked me to supply some examples to add weight to my theory and have finally had a chance to do so. The first pic is of a nursery stock pinus patulla started by Ian Edwards I have no idea how old this tree is but a conservative estimate would be 25yrs. My feeling is that if Ian had spent between 5 and 10 years developing this tree when he first bought it rather than stripping off all excess branches and potting it into a bonsai pot it would be 10 times the tree it is now.I think that after all those years of bonsai cultivation this tree still looks like stripped down nursery stock and is likely to do so for at least another 10 years. This species of pine develops the most incredible flaked bark after many years. The following to trees are bonsai starters that I have developed from cuttings and although I have not yet started the hard work on branching the potential is there and in a relatively short time they can become nice trees.

[Mojo Moyogi]

Excellent topic Craig.

Both the the Banksia and the Elm are very nice material that have an exciting future ahead of them and the results so far have been achieved in a modest timeframe.

Sacrificial growth contributes caliper, taper, basal flare, trunk movement, healing of scars and adds character to a tree that would take an awfully long time to achieve in a bonsai pot with only the branches that are being kept for the final design of the tree.

I just wish it hadn't taken me the 4 years in the beginning to understand this concept and put it into practice

Great bonsai take time to build, a defined process needs to be formulated from the outset and any lessons gained along the way need to be applied where necessary, but it needn't take an eternity.

Cheers
Mojo Moyogi

[Jamie]

a very interesting topic indeed, as mojo said, it took a few years to get the point of using methods and techniques to train a tree and not just to keep the branches needed in the final design, i myself am just learning this since i have been on ausbonsai.

one thing i did notice throught the four or so years before i found the site and playing with nursery trees and books, in the books what i love were the progressionals of trees and you see one picture from the start with a stick tree and then by the next page you see a stunning finished tree, i once thought when i was naive about bonsai that this wasnt a long process and nursery stock could be turned into trees by simple branch selection, wiring and a nice pot, man was i wrong, i still have a tree from when i first started that has been in its pot its whole life i have had it and it has barely changed in 5 years

to allow trees to ground grow, or box, for certain amounts of time to devlop trunks, then a couple more seasons to develop the branching where you want it then refinement in a bonsai pot is definately the way to go and this does take a lot of patience and is one of those lessons that we need to learn, some get it quicker than others, until i asked for advice here i didnt really get it either, i was one of the slow ones


i like the size of the banksia and elm to, very well done, these sort of cuttings and airlayers are a good way to skip a long growing process as growing a root system wont take anywhere near aslong as growing the thickness of the trunk!


jamie

[Jamie]

a very interesting topic indeed, as mojo said, it took a few years to get the point of using methods and techniques to train a tree and not just to keep the branches needed in the final design, i myself am just learning this since i have been on ausbonsai.

one thing i did notice throught the four or so years before i found the site and playing with nursery trees and books, in the books what i love were the progressionals of trees and you see one picture from the start with a stick tree and then by the next page you see a stunning finished tree, i once thought when i was naive about bonsai that this wasnt a long process and nursery stock could be turned into trees by simple branch selection, wiring and a nice pot, man was i wrong, i still have a tree from when i first started that has been in its pot its whole life i have had it and it has barely changed in 5 years

to allow trees to ground grow, or box, for certain amounts of time to devlop trunks, then a couple more seasons to develop the branching where you want it then refinement in a bonsai pot is definately the way to go and this does take a lot of patience and is one of those lessons that we need to learn, some get it quicker than others, until i asked for advice here i didnt really get it either, i was one of the slow ones


i like the size of the banksia and elm to, very well done, these sort of cuttings and airlayers are a good way to skip a long growing process as growing a root system wont take anywhere near aslong as growing the thickness of the trunk!


jamie

[Regan]

I'm glad that I have worked this out early, the first thing I look at when I've been looking for stock is the trunk and nebari the rest can be worked on easily, living in a townhouse doesn't help though, my courtyard is filling up very quickly with styro boxes and black pots, I'm also just starting to field grow some junipers so the garden is filling up quickly aswell

Regan (meffmez)

[Jamie]

regan,

you are lucky to learn this early as you will have more pleasing trees sooner keep it up we will see great trees in no time


jamie

[craigw60]

thanks Guys glad to hear you have understood my point.I often hear older growers saying they have no time left but really if you select the correct species and apply some good growing techniques a decent trunk caliper can be achieved quite quickly.Of course to produce a really first rate bonsai takes quite a long time but you can get something reasonable in a few years.
People in Japan who want to start a new tree would go to a specialist nursery and buy something which has been expertly trained for 10-20 years maybe more I wish. I have seen the nurseries where you can go and buy a trunk unbelievable.
You are kind of lucky to have caught on so early in your bonsai career Jamie. It took me around 10-15 years to get this kind of info and a collection full of stripped down nursery stock most of which has been discarded.
Craig

[Jamie]

yea, lucky in one way with my age being only 24, it still took me practically 4-5 years to figure this out though but that isnt an issue as i do have time and i can develop stock trees into something worthwhile


jamie

[anttal63]

NICE ONE CRAIG!!! Has evolved into a beautiful thread! My hat off to you and i thankyou for sharing this with us. As Mojo said it word for word. Except it doesnt matter that its taken what it has. Other lesson's learnt and beside's now is the right time. I have taken on this philosophy and in practice the last 6 months, so thats 4.5 yrs for me. i look forward to the results and hope to reach this standard that Craig is demonstrating. I think more impotanly than the caliper, is the character this technique creates. Warts, nooks and crannys, kinks and muscle. These are the characters that make great bonsai! Not to mention that all this growth is also aiding to build and ramify the Nebeari. So there is a lot more to a great trunk than just thickening it.

BTW Craig i gotta get over there one day soon.

[craigw60]

Hi Ant,
You are welcome any time. When field or fast growing trunks the growth tend to rather heavy and strong it takes quite a few years in a bonsai pot to soften that look. I have been formulating a post on techniques for field growing (in my head ) and will put it up when I have the pics and ideas sorted out.

[Jamie]

i guess that would be species relevent with how long it takes to soften the look of a tree wouldnt it craig? i mean some trees respond better to leaf reduction etc.`?


jamie