Bonsai at the Extreme of their Natural Range

[NBPCA]

Hi all,

We all love lots of different types of trees as Bonsai that may not be suited to our local environment.

This can be handled in two ways.

1. Don't grow it.

2. Find out what is necessary for that plant to survive in your area.

I can think of a few off the top of my head.

Port Jackson Fig. I have heard it won't grow in Darwin. How about Cairns etc.

Cedars in Brisbane.

Scots Pine in Sydney.

Larch in Canberra.

Any thoughts appreciated as to how to handle this topic.

Grant

[bodhidharma]

Hi Grant, good topic as i have friends in Maroochydore who have stunning Bougy's and i lust every time i see them. I have grown several in pots and they have all died. Central highlands with its vicious frost takes care of them quickly. I have experimented and, i know this doesnt sound plausible, but the purple and pinks etc all cark it but i have, and still am, growing a white one very successfully in the ground. It is outside in a protected spot but is in its third year and doing well albeit slowly. We will see what happens when i dig it up and pot it. I grew the others in a hothouse with a heater etc but as soon as the experienced a minus degree temp it was bye bye. I will see with this one. I suppose the real answer is stick to what does well in your climate. I did a demo in Darwin on a Juniper and turned it into a Literati . I did extreme work on it that i would do here in my conditions( and they do not miss a beat) and it died Not a good look for someone who is supposed to know what they are doing.

[Mojo Moyogi]

Hi Grant,
I think that Larch would love the climate in Canberra, although Canberra summers are hot and dry, some shade may be required at that time. I grow them here in the Yarra Ranges 70km north of Melbourne at 500m altitude in full sun regardless of how hot it is, providing the upper roots are well covered by soil and don't get cooked they are fine both here and in Melbourne. They grow like wildfire when established.

Cheers
Mojo Moyogi

[Pup]

Larch Yew and Picea, do not do well here in the Perth Metro area. I have seen some in gardens down on the south coast though.

There is a large PJ fig growing in Denmark in a sheltered shopping precinct. It is said to be 80 years old. I thought it was the most southerly growing Ficus, but was wrong.

A lot of our natives will grow well out side there natural habitat that is what makes them so good for Bonsai.

I have seen Olives in Glasgow in huge pots with fruit on them, Peter Chan has two large ones in the entrance to his Nursery in Surrey which was under 3ft of snow just recently.
Some tree's will adjust some will not, as you say Grant it is working out those that do well in your area. Being Curator is not easy when you have these problems, but we are here to help

Cheers Pup

[bodhidharma]

Following on from Pups letter when i was last in Perth (3 years ago, has it been that long) i brought back some Willow Myrtles (Peppermint Gums?) which love it over here and are doing very, very well in the ground and in a pot. Ahhh they remind me of Peppermint Grove where i spent a lot of my childhood

[ric]

Hi Grant,I have a couple of Scots pines in Sydney that are doing very nicely now. They were collected in the Canberra arboretums a few years ago about where the road winds up to Dairyfarmers Hill now- about 9 years ago I reccon. They struggled for a while and have not been repotted since collection but spring 08 they were cut back and some basic wiring was applied .This seemed to spark them into healthy backshooting. I think that sometimes other factors than climate lead us to make judgements on the Natural range's influence on results of Bonsai culture. On the other hand I have succesfully killed all forms of Larch that I tried in Sydney. Trial and error remains the only way.

[NBPCA]

Hi Grant, good topic as i have friends in Maroochydore who have stunning Bougy's and i lust every time i see them. I have grown several in pots and they have all died. Central highlands with its vicious frost takes care of them quickly. I have experimented and, i know this doesnt sound plausible, but the purple and pinks etc all cark it but i have, and still am, growing a white one very successfully in the ground. It is outside in a protected spot but is in its third year and doing well albeit slowly. We will see what happens when i dig it up and pot it. I grew the others in a hothouse with a heater etc but as soon as the experienced a minus degree temp it was bye bye. I will see with this one. I suppose the real answer is stick to what does well in your climate. I did a demo in Darwin on a Juniper and turned it into a Literati . I did extreme work on it that i would do here in my conditions( and they do not miss a beat) and it died Not a good look for someone who is supposed to know what they are doing.

Hi Bodi,

Some people can grow bougs here in the ground if it is against a building facing north; otherwise forget it.

Bonsai boug was here for 5 months on loan from Brisbane but it did not like it.

Grant

[NBPCA]

Hi Grant,
I think that Larch would love the climate in Canberra, although Canberra summers are hot and dry, some shade may be required at that time. I grow them here in the Yarra Ranges 70km north of Melbourne at 500m altitude in full sun regardless of how hot it is, providing the upper roots are well covered by soil and don't get cooked they are fine both here and in Melbourne. They grow like wildfire when established.

Cheers
Mojo Moyogi

Hi Mojo,

I found when I lived at 500 m altitude in the Sthn Highlands NSW that European Larch died within 2 years in pots and 4 years in the ground.

Japanese Larch did OK in the ground as long as kept wet.

My Japanese Larch bonsai is doing fine in Canberra under shade cloth, but I lost a tall piece of nursery stock outsde to a minor, minor dry out. They do love water.

Grant

[NBPCA]

Larch Yew and Picea, do not do well here in the Perth Metro area. I have seen some in gardens down on the south coast though.

There is a large PJ fig growing in Denmark in a sheltered shopping precinct. It is said to be 80 years old. I thought it was the most southerly growing Ficus, but was wrong.

A lot of our natives will grow well out side there natural habitat that is what makes them so good for Bonsai.

I have seen Olives in Glasgow in huge pots with fruit on them, Peter Chan has two large ones in the entrance to his Nursery in Surrey which was under 3ft of snow just recently.
Some tree's will adjust some will not, as you say Grant it is working out those that do well in your area. Being Curator is not easy when you have these problems, but we are here to help

Cheers Pup

Hi Pup,

East Coast Banksia will grow no worries in WA, whereas WA Banksia mostly wont grow on the East Coast. Too much humidity. Some may survive in Canberra and I will have to try again.

Grant

[NBPCA]

Hi Grant,I have a couple of Scots pines in Sydney that are doing very nicely now. They were collected in the Canberra arboretums a few years ago about where the road winds up to Dairyfarmers Hill now- about 9 years ago I reccon. They struggled for a while and have not been repotted since collection but spring 08 they were cut back and some basic wiring was applied .This seemed to spark them into healthy backshooting. I think that sometimes other factors than climate lead us to make judgements on the Natural range's influence on results of Bonsai culture. On the other hand I have succesfully killed all forms of Larch that I tried in Sydney. Trial and error remains the only way.

Hi Ric,

First time I have spoken to you on line. I didn't know there were any Scots pine in the former forest that is now the Arboretum. Good to hear they are doing well and yes it comes down to peoples abilities as well as the plant.

Scots pines that went out to Hay just said "OCH NOO. NOO WAY LADDY" and promptly keeled over.

Grant

[Edward Scissorhand]

I bought 5 larches in Sydney and killed 2 but Ive had the other 3 larches growing since seedling in Sydney's south for nine years. All I can say is they dont like the humidity but Ive kept them growing for almost a decade. I use mainly alot of coarse material like gravel, cowrie pebble, scoria etc in my mix, about 60%. The rest of the mix is whatever I have on hand, usually just cheap potting mix and river sand. In the past Ive also used akadama which seems to do well with larch in Sydney. But Akadama is just too expensive. I deliberately make more holes in the side of the plastic pot just making sure it has good air and good drainage, because the tree will turn into boiled spinach if I dont have that good air drainage. I also have packets of fongarid at hand and in the past, on consecutive humid days, I would put some as a prevention but I havent this year. I also put my potted larches on ground soil level but still gets alot of sun. For some reason, they seem to do much better on ground level rather than be elevated on stands. The roots seem to grow in search for moisture and nutirient on ground level, which is good cause thats what I want it to do, Grow! It just gets too much direct heat when I elevate them onto stands and they just grow so much slowly.

[Jamie]

here in the wide bay i have learnt that there is no point even trying to grow maples, even the tridents seem to suffer, i have seen some liquid amber do alirght though, but the maples just seem to go stagnant and stop growing, i have a couple of elms and they seem to do ok, chinese elm is growing well, english elm will grow well when it gets stronger. a lot of cold weather plants/trees dont like it here at all. so i havent had them apart from elms. and they can be semi deciduous so i can get away with it.

i have had mixed results with junipers, as much as i love them some dont like it, i have found shimpaku seem to do the best here, but an hour and a bit north of me Rod has some really good ones squamata/prostata i think they are. and they are thriving!

maybe its just me that the cold climate trees dont like

jamie

[NBPCA]

I bought 5 larches in Sydney and killed 2 but Ive had the other 3 larches growing since seedling in Sydney's south for nine years. All I can say is they dont like the humidity but Ive kept them growing for almost a decade. I use mainly alot of coarse material like gravel, cowrie pebble, scoria etc in my mix, about 60%. The rest of the mix is whatever I have on hand, usually just cheap potting mix and river sand. In the past Ive also used akadama which seems to do well with larch in Sydney. But Akadama is just too expensive. I deliberately make more holes in the side of the plastic pot just making sure it has good air and good drainage, because the tree will turn into boiled spinach if I dont have that good air drainage. I also have packets of fongarid at hand and in the past, on consecutive humid days, I would put some as a prevention but I havent this year. I also put my potted larches on ground soil level but still gets alot of sun. For some reason, they seem to do much better on ground level rather than be elevated on stands. The roots seem to grow in search for moisture and nutirient on ground level, which is good cause thats what I want it to do, Grow! It just gets too much direct heat when I elevate them onto stands and they just grow so much slowly.

The Japanese Larch really does love its water. Its a pity they are a bit touchy because they are a lovely tree. They can get sun burnt as well so your suggestion of growing them nearer ground level and possibly with some shade would help

In the wild in Canada I saw Larch near the end of the tree line and they were loving it. Full sun, wind, rain and cold.

Grant

[NBPCA]

here in the wide bay i have learnt that there is no point even trying to grow maples, even the tridents seem to suffer, i have seen some liquid amber do alirght though, but the maples just seem to go stagnant and stop growing, i have a couple of elms and they seem to do ok, chinese elm is growing well, english elm will grow well when it gets stronger. a lot of cold weather plants/trees dont like it here at all. so i havent had them apart from elms. and they can be semi deciduous so i can get away with it.

i have had mixed results with junipers, as much as i love them some dont like it, i have found shimpaku seem to do the best here, but an hour and a bit north of me Rod has some really good ones squamata/prostata i think they are. and they are thriving!

maybe its just me that the cold climate trees dont like

jamie

You could try Ash. They are a deciduous tree that like the heat.

Shimpaku I hear does good but not Blaauws Juniper, which surprised me, as the Blaauws is stronger down here than Shimpaku is. It also grows much quicker and bigger but is rarely used.

Grant

[Jamie]

i do beleive ash trees do do well here, i have seen some long tall lanky ones in landscape nurseries and they have all looked strong, i beleive they respond well to pot culture too, i seen a few good ones down in brisbane at northside bonsai nursery but was hesitant on getting them incase they didnt like my climate.


i wouldnt be so hesitant on getting them now though. the other deciduous tree i have just recently purchased is an orinetal planetree, which i am not sure how it will go but at the moment seems quite content and happy. will see how it goes when it is to drop all its leaves in winter, i did a bit of research on them and they seem to like it roughly in our zoned area, which doesnt mean much with micro climates but we will see.


jamie

ps. i am not even sure how they will go in pot culture either so its really a testing tree, i didnt pay much for it so its not a great loss if it does die. i dont think its so much our heat that is a problem to the deciduous trees as we only get to a max of 35-37 in the peak hot period which is only generally for about two maybe three weeks then it drops back down to 30ish but the humidity stays high the whole time and only drops of for a bit in winter when it does get slightly cooler, night time temps generally average 18-20 degrees, we have had the occasional cold spurts that last for a week or two.