For nervous beginners...relocating a branch on large Mugo?

[bodhidharma]

I am developing a 2 needle Pine (mugo?) which i bought as a black pine (which it is'nt) as a large specimen tree for the front of my Nursery. I have had to try and create a branch at a point where there was not one. This is how i went about it. Please, you 2 needle Pine experts, if you can I.D the tree for me that would be terrific. I purchased the tree 9 years ago and it was not intended to turn into this, but things change dont they.

[Gerard]

Very clever Bodhi,I like the way you have thought this through.
I am always nervous with mugo's since I lost one last year and don't know why.
Your tree looks healthy enough to survive this and the improvement should be your reward. Thanks for sharing

Regards Gerard

[alpineart]

Hi Bodhi , no expert here but to me it looks like a Pinus Nigra 'Austriaca' - European Black Pine also known as the Austrian black pine .The needles on the Nigra are a distinct half moon shape moreso than the other 2 needle pines i have , and as they age they loose the juvinile twist/curve . Nigra's are very common up here and can be mistaken for a mugo when juvenile even by Nurserymen. The bark is typical of a young Nigra at about 10- years {depending on growing conditions} the bark seperates into plates and changes colour to the silver/black as per "truss topic" Cheers Alpine

[dayne]

good on ya thats what we like to see hard core bonsai not just clip n wire thats great thats how to get average trees great the more we all try this the better

[bodhidharma]

Hi Bodhi , no expert here but to me it looks like a Pinus Nigra 'Austriaca' - European Black Pine also known as the Austrian black pine .The needles on the Nigra are a distinct half moon shape moreso than the other 2 needle pines i have , and as they age they loose the juvinile twist/curve . Nigra's are very common up here and can be mistaken for a mugo when juvenile even by Nurserymen. The bark is typical of a young Nigra at about 10- years {depending on growing conditions} the bark seperates into plates and changes colour to the silver/black as per "truss topic" Cheers Alpine

Thanks Alpine, got your pm and i will organize that today.

[bodhidharma]

good on ya thats what we like to see hard core bonsai not just clip n wire thats great thats how to get average trees great the more we all try this the better

G'day Dayne, Thanks mate, i decided a long time ago that if a tree needs changing to make it better i would do it no matter what. Even if it means that section of the tree might die in the process or worse still, the whole tree. I cannot see any other way to get quality trees in the future.

[Bretts]

Hi Bodi
Thanks for showing!
I hope it works, have you tried this before?

It is hard to see the size of the branch in the picture so I am not sure what difference in time we are talking about. But I wonder if you could get more predictable results from just grafting in a bud? It would leave less damage if it failed.

[woody]

hi Bodhi, first, thanks for showing how nice and clear. Two questions: Is that duct tape you used to .
And is a pine something that can be 'threaded'?
Woody.

[bodhidharma]

G'day Bretts, I have done this before with success but not as dramatic or as large. The trunk is 30mm thick at that point and the extending leader about 17mm. You are right that a bud would do less damage but it is one of those things that i have to give it a go to see if it works. The problem will be, if it works, the swelling of the trunk at that point. It might be to ugly to leave. But it is one of those things...I WANT TO KNOW...and we must experiment The problem will be also,that if i disturbed the life force flow on the new branch to much for it to succeed. I already have a plan B for a new leader if plan A does not work. Anyway, the tree and i have had discussions, it has forgiven me and it will do its best to make it happen. I cannot ask for more than that.

[bodhidharma]

hi Bodhi, first, thanks for showing how nice and clear. Two questions: Is that duct tape you used to .
And is a pine something that can be 'threaded'?
Woody.

G'day Woody, i always used to use plumbers tape but it is a real bugger to get off after a year or so. I have used electricians heavy duty tape this time as it holds the procedure in place better and will keep it really dry.(i hope anyway) As for thread grafting on Pines i have never tried it. We might need to put that question to the bigger boys out there to see if it has been done successfully. If we get no answer then we should give it a go.

[woody]

my collection is pineless Bodhi . Thanks for the tape lesson as well. So much to learn, so little time. Woody

[Gerard]

And is a pine something that can be 'threaded'?

Hi woody,
Thread grafting is not the go as foliage at the tip is necessary on pines, not just buds.
Approach grafting where an existing branch is attached to the outside of the trunk is the preferred method.

Gerard

[Bretts]

Thanks for the explanation Bodi. I am even more interested to see if it works now.
I was shown how to graft pine buds by Ray last season so I will be starting to experiment for myself this year. I think I will try a method of wrapping the scion in plastic before grafting it on. Looks like a much simpler method than trying to cover the bud later

[bodhidharma]

Thanks for the explanation Bodi. I am even more interested to see if it works now.
I was shown how to graft pine buds by Ray last season so I will be starting to experiment for myself this year. I think I will try a method of wrapping the scion in plastic before grafting it on. Looks like a much simpler method than trying to cover the bud later

Yep, it is all about learning and then doing isnt it. I am a baby when it comes to this stuff. Let me know when you do it Bretts. Maybe a blow by blow posting on this thread. that would be good.

[woody]

Hi woody,
Thread grafting is not the go as foliage at the tip is necessary on pines, not just buds.
Approach grafting where an existing branch is attached to the outside of the trunk is the preferred method

thanks Gerard, I'm really looking forward to my first graft, i hope it looks half as good as Bodhis'. Anyway, gotta go feed the knee scratcher. Woody