Spread of branches on bonsai

[63pmp]

5 or so years ago Kimura did a demonstration for AABC at Homebush in Sydney, he commented on the fact that many bonsai on display had branches that were too wide for the trunks. And that many had all there leaves on the outside, with no buds near the trunks. I've been looking at a lot of trees on the Ausbonsai forum and noticed that many trees shown do have what I would consider branches that are way too long, disproportional even, for the composition. Are they like this for development? or is it something that we do out of habit here in Oz?

Paul

[Bretts]

Maybe you can show us how you train your branches Paul!

[kcpoole]

I suppose it depends on the individual tastes I guess.
a broom style tree with a wide canopy,

Pine or juni yes maybe true?

Got some examples Paul?

Ken

[craigw60]

Hi Paul I have heard Hiro say the same thing many times, I think lots of Australian growers are in too much of a hurry for their trees to take on a finished look rather than taking the time to cut the branches back and re-grow them, bringing them out slowly rather than trying to get them to the eventual length quickly.
With regards to the foliage being only on the tips this is also a problem with local trees if you take a close look at many Japanese tree especially the pines it is very rare to see the juncture of trunk and branch which is usually concealed by foliage meaning there is growth way back on the inside of the branches. The only way to maintain foliage back along the branches is with correct pruning and thinning techniques, ie leaf/needle reduction work and balancing growth by pruning and defoliating on the stronger outer tips of the trees.
This is a great topic and deserves much more attention than it has had.
Craigw

[Bretts]

This is a great topic and deserves much more attention than it has had.
Craigw

People like pictures Show us the pics Guys!
I know I push my foliage as close to the trunk as I can "grow your branches like your trunks" But that is because I love lots of foliage not because Kimura told me

[ozzy]

I notice that a lot of people grow their branches long and straight without enough movement, on my olives I always cut them back to a close in bud once they've fattened up a bit, the dotted line shows where the original branch was that was cut off introducing a lot more movement to the branch, takes longer but looks a hell of a lot better, a lot of growers just leave them straight.

[Loretta]

This thread is an excellent learning tool and I hope to see a lot more information and photos. I think that's right, speaking for myself I'm inpatient to see a tree that looks like a tree and am sometimes reluctant to cut even when I know I should. This is mainly on trees that have a canopy. Don't get me wrong, don't stand still when I've got a pair of secateurs in my hand, I can be ruthless. But it would be very interesting if someone could post the recommended distances between top of pot to top of tree, isn't the height of tree supposed to be 3 times the height pot and so on Good thread, please keep it going
Loretta

[craigw60]

ok heres a couple of examples

[craigw60]

Heres another one this is an old trident which I recently acquired it has had a few owners but the last person did not prune it correctly. It had just been run over with scissors, there had been no but selection, no cutting back to 2 buds and all the sub branches close to the trunk have died. I have been over it and cut out all the lumps of twigs trying to simplify the branch structure, if the tree does not shoot back along the branches then when it is really healthy I will shorten all the branches by at least half and start again, fingers crossed it shoots back.
Craigw

[ozzy]

This was done with hardly any wiring at all, wire the initial branches down to start with then just clip and grow, keeps it nice and compact and introduces movement you just wouldn't get with wiring alone.

[Loretta]

This was done with hardly any wiring at all, wire the initial branches down to start with then just clip and grow, keeps it nice and compact and introduces movement you just wouldn't get with wiring alone.

So are you saying, if you have a starter tree with a good supply of branches, you can simply cut back to the approximate shape you want and then just keep tip pruning. This would encourage back growth which would eventually fill the interior of the canopy.
cheers Loretta

[ozzy]

I can only really speak for olives because thats about all I do but I grow a branch long, fatten it up then cut it right back to a close in bud and start again.

[ozzy]

But a lot of people just leave the branch long as they can't bare to cut off all that growth , so they end up with a pot plant instead of a Bonsai

[craigw60]

Hi Loretta, one thing about bonsai is that everyone you talk to will give you a different story. I like to wire the branches sub-branches and twigs on my trees for directional flow and movement.
Craigw

[Bretts]

This casurina of mine I think is a good example. I explianed to Steven my understanding of why I cut the branches back, even a poor atempt at a mud map of the process
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=138&p=38115
I will update with some pics how it is comming along soon.

About time we saw some pics of ya Olives Ozzy. That first branch is excellent work.