Mums Cedar

Forum for discussion of Pines, Junipers, Cedar etc as bonsai.
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

A decade ago my mother decided she would like a bonsai for her garden, so we went shopping and she picked a lovely young cedar. I gave her an oversized pot to "grow into" ;) in a century or so. To her it had prime position under the clothesline so she could look at it while hanging out the wash and from every other corner of the yard. I must admit it was very well placed, full sun except on laundry day and positioned so as not to catch on anything hanging down.

It grew happily in that spot and she took great care of this tree, then 2 years ago my parents went to the UK to visit family. A friend who was looking after everything thought not watering was part of how you made a bonsai small. So 6wks later a very sad mum and tree arrived on my doorstep. "Can you do Anything for it?" ...... I promised I would try, it did have a few live buds in close and the worst looking straw coloured needles scattered about (all the extremities had been shed first as it had slowly died of dehydration).

After they had headed home I began the grim procedure, while still slender in girth, the frame was there to fill out & plenty of short dense growth right back to the trunk (one of the bonuses that helped saved it). A lithe young tree just getting into its stride of life, it stood almost 75cm high & about the same spread. Reduced to a bare frame with the odd tuft of straw yellow needles. Only one branch was dead, a sacrifice branch :lol: I cut all the dead wood off while avoiding creating any new scars for the already weak tree to heal then went to work on the roots. Whats dead? Whats alive? By the time I was finished removing all the dead roots I didnt think this would live. I soaked it in a bucket of plain rain water overnight, the next day I planted it in a recently prepared garden bed, watered & hoped for a surprise :roll:

Well it not only lived it thrived, it has had to contend with a no water garden (apart from 3 waterings over the establishment stage). In the first year i trimmed the long shoots twice then left it to grow out. Late winter all the long shoots were shortened. Over the last growing season I kept trimming the shoots thruout the season, about 8times. Late autumn I set a ringbark layer on the apex , mid winter shortened most of the upper branchs by half, late winter made a few spade cuts around the tree to start bringing the roots back in.

It is now thumping away with new growth & has already had its first trim of the year. Scarring from sunburn & the sacrifice branch that died 'naturally' are healing over well, the trunk has doubled in girth in 2 years, while still slender it has made far more growth than in a pot.
PICT0051.jpg
PICT0054.jpg
It started life with 2 long semi bar branchs and the central trunk. Both branchs were allowed to remain, one for girth adding & the other to create either an oversized first branch, semi or full cascade at some stage in the future. The branch that survived & shown in the pics had always attracted me in its own right. I could sit up close & ignore the towering trunk, focusing on this one branch & its multiple 'trunks'. There are 2 secondary branches near the bottom of this first branch so removing the raft section wouldnt necessarily mean a restyling of the tree, just regrowing a full branch.
PICT0052.jpg
PICT0053.jpg
Would love to hear any other ideas for this one as everything is a bonus and I can experiment till I kill it or otherwise and given its past I dont think I could kill it if I tried.

Matt
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
Edward Scissorhand
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 518
Joined: July 12th, 2009, 5:33 pm
Favorite Species: Aussie natives, Pines, Maples, Figs, Junipers
Bonsai Age: 21
Bonsai Club: None
Location: Sydney

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by Edward Scissorhand »

Matt, I love trees with stories attached to it. I like a semi or full cascade on this one.
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

Over the weekend I was trying to avoid doing much, so spent alot of time just talking & listening to my trees. I had a good look at the layer I set on this tree during autumn. As I had ringbarked (not advised with conifers) I have been watching the upper portion like a hawk. The first positive sign was that it shot away this spring, a little behind the rest of the tree but still shot well. On the weekend I noticed the first root showing at the edge of the small bag of spag wrapped around it.

With the first root showing I thought i might have a good look at what i would be getting once the layer comes off. WOW, branchs & buds everywhere, this will be great fun cleaning out the old needles & finding what to keep cut & work with. Total height of the layered piece is about 7" (18cm)
cedarlayer.jpg
aroot.jpg
R0014037.jpg
R0014041.jpg
Matt
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
User avatar
alpineart
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 4737
Joined: July 14th, 2009, 9:04 pm
Favorite Species: Pinus Maples
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Ausbonsai
Location: Myrtleford VIC
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 154 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by alpineart »

Hi Matt , sorry i missed this post ," computer issues" and i'm working flat on trimming and preparing ground for grow on trainers .I need to set a few layers on some big Cedrus Deodara's in the garden , now i'm inspired to get it happening . Thanks for posting .Cheers Alpine
rch003
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 151
Joined: December 11th, 2010, 9:26 pm
Favorite Species: Maple/Ficus
Bonsai Age: 4
Location: Nambour

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by rch003 »

Great save on the cedar mate, looks really good, that raft style always interests me
I use the real world to distract myself from bonsai and I use bonsai to distract myself from the real world.
User avatar
Glenda
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 980
Joined: January 10th, 2010, 12:44 pm
Favorite Species: Ficus, Swamp Cypress, Bouganvillea,
Bonsai Age: 2
Bonsai Club: Mackay Bonsai Club
Location: Mackay, Qld
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by Glenda »

So does your mum stand any chance of ever getting it back, or is it just yours now? :lol: :lol:
Good work on the save though :clap:

Glenda
"Knowledge is not a heavy thing to carry around" - JB Taylor (my father)
"The more you learn the more you earn" - JB Taylor
"There are exceptions to every rule, but to be an exception, you must first be exceptional" - Me
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

alpineart wrote:Hi Matt , sorry i missed this post ," computer issues" and i'm working flat on trimming and preparing ground for grow on trainers .I need to set a few layers on some big Cedrus Deodara's in the garden , now i'm inspired to get it happening . Thanks for posting .Cheers Alpine
Hey bud, its all cool, spring thru to now is always flat out with the trees. As i said to you in pvt the trainers will be amazing with only 2 years in the ground, be careful you dont end up like me & decide to leave it a few more :lol: If you go with some layers I hope you post them so we can all drool... I always do when I see your trees.
rch003 wrote:Great save on the cedar mate, looks really good, that raft style always interests me
The save is all the trees own doing, it wants to live... I just try to keep ontop of its growth.
Glenda wrote:So does your mum stand any chance of ever getting it back, or is it just yours now? :lol: :lol:
Good work on the save though :clap:

Glenda
Hopefully I will have the small layer and possibly the raft as well so she may get lucky & see the tree in her garden again. Tho most likely not, her & my dad looked after my trees for 3 days last summer & have realised how much we put into them & how much work they really are. I have never been asked what i do with my time anymore :lol: :lol: :lol:

Matt
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
User avatar
alpineart
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 4737
Joined: July 14th, 2009, 9:04 pm
Favorite Species: Pinus Maples
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Ausbonsai
Location: Myrtleford VIC
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 154 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by alpineart »

Hi Matt , a few :?: When you cut the ring-barked did you use a wire tornaque in conjuction with the ringbark , With the Spagnum moss was it sealed :?: and how often did you water it :?: Were there any sharps in the Spagnum : ie quarts granite .Cheers Alpine
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

alpineart wrote:Hi Matt , a few :?: just a few hey bud :lol:
When you cut the ring-barked did you use a wire tornaque in conjuction with the ringbark NO, I simply removed a ring of bark approx 1cm dia, its all i had room for between all the branching
With the Spagnum moss was it sealed :?: I didnt have any spag at the time of doing it so used a mix of an old potting mix that has a good portion of sharp sand & grit to which I added a little chopped spag to increase the water holding a little. I have tried as best to seal the bag but havent been the most successful causing it to dry out regularly
and how often did you water it :?: I check the bag atleast twice a week and use a large syringe to inject water into the bag thru the plastic, the chemist always gives me strange looks when I explain why i want massive horse syringes
Were there any sharps in the Spagnum : ie quarts granitesee above .Cheers Alpine
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
User avatar
alpineart
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 4737
Joined: July 14th, 2009, 9:04 pm
Favorite Species: Pinus Maples
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Ausbonsai
Location: Myrtleford VIC
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 154 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by alpineart »

Thanks Matt , i appreciate your answers , as i'm sure others will .Cheers Alpine
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

alpineart wrote:Thanks Matt , i appreciate your answers , as i'm sure others will .Cheers Alpine
Anytime mate.... I am always willing to share what little I know, can't expect to get anything out of life without giving something to it.

I want to go & tinker with the bag :lol: I just dont want to tempt fate, it is doing so well at the moment & I have enough else to do around the place. Will keep the thread updated when more happens.

Matt
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

I have been watching this tree & its layer regularly, yesterday I finally decided to wait no longer. Due to the confined space I had to work in I decided not to unbag & see but rather just remove it completely, I knew I had atleast one root & where theres one there is usually more.
R0014650rs.jpg
My camera chose to stop working just after this pic so unfortunately I dont have any record of what was found... Huge swelling where the ring had been removed & it had completely healed, as well as caloused & produced half a dozen or so roots.

The problems I had early on with the bag drying out has been reversed with all the rain of recent times. So much so, all bar one root had rotted off at the calous. Too late now I cant reattach, so it has been potted into a mix of fine & large akadama (this stuff is the best at getting rootgrowth happening) and put in the tank with a few other trees in need of nursing. Hopefully there is enough stored energy in the branchs to get things happening, I wont even complain if I lose all bar one bud/branch, just gives me a smaller tree right from the start ;)

Matt
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

Now to the rest of the tree, With the layer gone I can start seeing where to next. While i was taking the photos I noticed how much this tree has changed over the last 2.5yrs. The trunk is now over double its original thickness & the branching has really filled out. It now stands 45cm high 70cm wide & 35cm deep, the trunk is just over 4cm dia at the base & 1.5cm at the apex.
whole tree.jpg
I used a white sheet to cover the first branch that I am thinking about layering off and really like the look of it as an upright tree. As you can see in the photo there is a small side branch that I could use to grow a first right branch if I wanted or jinning it would also work.
upright.jpg
uprightoh.jpg
I have been toying with Edward's idea of a semi or full cascade & now the layer is off I can see it more & more so i covered up the rest of the tree to see what I have got... A short jin using the base of the top trunk or chop and heal over... This could be really nice with a few years work and there arent many cascade anythings let alone cedar. I would probably go to a full cascade, depending on what the tree thinks.
cascade.jpg
cacscadeoh.jpg
Either way there will be atleast one more layer set on this tree before the next stage. I am really happy with how it is coming along & with a few more years .. who knows... One thing that I have been really impressed with is the healing of a patch of sunburn & also the areas that had died back from the sacrifice branch that died during its first restyle :lol:
scarhealing.jpg
Thoughts ideas comments suggestions always welcome.

Matt
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

Bit of an update on where things are at. The 1st layer spent 6wks in ICU (a fish tank with shade cloth over the top to increase humidity. It was then relocated to a semi shaded spot in the garden for a few weeks & has been in ints current position getting full sun for the last 3wks. While there has been no obvious growth, it has also no lost many needles, tho a few are not looking the best it gives me hope that this will pull thru fine and fire away come spring.
R0015436.JPG
The second layer shot soon after being set and I will allow it to grow untrimmed until late winter then cut the new shoots right back to keep budding close. While the 1st layer seems to be holding its own, this one will follow more usual procedures & be left until roots are coming thru the bottom of the pot, I am hoping this should only take 12mths.
layer2.jpg
I played around with the idea of a cascade further & decided to go for it. I am using a piece of concrete to hold the first branch down & around to start forming the cascade. I will need to remove one or 2 of the secondary branches to create some space in the design but that can wait till late winter. I also took the opportunity while working on the tree to cut out some upward growing branclets on the right branch & wired it downward, I had to remove the wire after just 8wks as the trunk had started to swell around it, this has since filled out again. The branch has lifted slightly but has held most of the movement placed in it, i will rewire in a few weeks time & should be able to leave it on until mid spring.
oldfront.jpg
cascade front.jpg
Comment & critique always welcomed.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
User avatar
MattA
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3112
Joined: February 13th, 2010, 2:37 pm
Favorite Species: Lichen
Bonsai Age: 26
Bonsai Club: Killing Trees Inc..
Location: Lower Hunter Valley
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Mums Cedar

Post by MattA »

100_3126rz.JPG
New growth is firing with the start of spring. I have to admit to being a bit lazy & not keeping enough water up to the layer, so I decided to rebag with sphagnum so i can hopefully get roots happening & have it off sooner rather than later to let more light down to the lowest eventual cascade branch.
100_3130rz.JPG
While no roots had formed yet, lots of callous had which has also contributed to the start of some nice flare in the lower part of the trunk.
100_3132rz.JPG
I wrapped the old cut pot around the bag and she is good to go on again. Heres hoping I dont have to wait too long for roots.
100_3133rz.JPG
Matt
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
42 Mice ~Imperfection
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." ~ Vernon Sanders Law
"All the knowledge I possess everyone else can acquire, but my heart is all my own." ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
"Bonsai becomes great when growers start trees they know they will never see in a pot"
Post Reply

Return to “Pines and Junipers”