My collecting ways

[MattA]

This started out as a reply on another thread & I got a bit sidetracked from the topic , so rather than hijack that one I have put it here & added a few more bits.

I am a yamadori crackwhore Collected trees, ranging from huge stumps to tiny 'trees', some needing decades of work others almost instant bonsai, outnumber all other sources of trees by a huge ratio in my garden. Over the years I have developed my own ways as well as applied others experiences. I am always looking for potential trees everywhere I go and always keen on hearing others methods & experience with new species I have not moved before.

I will obtain permission in most locations before collecting and prize a few of those spots highly. I can also be a bit of a guerilla when I feel there is a justification for not getting the permission eg: under powerlines thru bushland where the plants are constantly mowed down, land clearing by large developers etc and its more than likely they will decline prefering to see it mulched because its easier than risking you hurting yourself doing the dig & then sueing them because they have said yes.

I have on one occasion dug up a couple of trees from someones garden at 3am knowing full well a bobcat was going to rip them out the next day & the owner would not let me have them (that was a fun night carrying 5 trees, none small, down the street, round the corner and into a mates ute). This hit was highly planned & we had spent several weeks at odd hours of the night making spade cuts around each tree, with those in garden beds we were able to do major root exploration & work. All this made it alot quicker than full digging would have taken at that hour of the morning. I only have memories and a few old film photo's of those trees left.

When collecting from the wild I only dig what has some special appeal to make it stand out from the others of its kind I may have seen AND that I can see being a bonsai AND that i am fairly confident will survive given time of year, species etc. If it is a species I would like to add to my collection but have never transplanted before I start with seedlings. For some species it can take a year of regularly collecting to find the right time, then a few more so I can experiment with a few other things eg medium, age/size, methods (eg bareroot or not).

When collecting in the urban environment sometimes it can be pure chance (a friend wanted a hedge of box removed I have 17 new trees) to scanning development sites for choice bits or even knocking on someones front door and asking if they would let you acquire something you have noticed in there yard. Now depending on the plants condition & position and the person at the door it is not uncommon for them to ask "You want THAT Sure I have never liked it there" dont elaboration why you want it unless they ask a question, then be as vague & non descript as possible... if they mention anything about being worth something, down play it. Make up some cock & doodle story about your granny had one blah blah alot of people are suckers for sob stories. Try to avoid the bonsai word unless they are gardeners and you have to work on them to pry some prize bit they have tended & loved for 40yrs. Explain how much love & care the tree will get in your care & that even when you go the tree will continue to be cared for by another bonsai artist. "Some trees have been tended everyday for over 4 or 5 centuries" (you can really milk it if you feel the need). Always tell them you will fill in the hole, clean up & remove any trimmings, offer to replace it with a plant of there choosing and your there.

I am looking & collecting trees all year round, some species will only tolerate being collected during certain stages of growth or particular seasons, however the majority can be collected at any time of year. If there is no immediate threat I store the tree in my memory & return when the time is right. If it is an opportunistic dig outside of optimum timing I try to get a larger root ball than normal and I increase the aftercare levels and nurse the tree until it has had a full natural cycle or shows enough strength to not warrant it any more.

I have always loved natives as bonsai and experimented with collecting them. With my bonsai obsession leaning heavier & heavier that way I am always looking at what is around me locally and everywhere else in my travels. Over the past few years I have not been looking at trees & shrubs for potential, but the sub shrubs, ground covers, herbs and other bits that are rarely noticed under larger shrubs & saplings or amongst the leaves and grasses. Some of those species when removed from the competitive and deprived natural environment and given good food, water, soil can grow into something far different to any you would see wild. No more wispy long lanky things with tufts of leaves at the ends but trunks with girth and nice ramifying branchs.

Many more of this winter/spring collecting has been of plants for soe as well as expanding the variety of one of another favored species, Hibbertia. This seasons collected plants have been the most surprising in there response to being dug, with some of the small stuff filling a standard 6" pot with roots in 8wks and a few are setting new flowers. I have also had very few unsuccessful digs this year, with atleast one of each new test species surviving.

I have changed a few minor aspects of my methods this year after last years tests. Always get a handfull of soil from around the plant as well as trying to keep as much soil around the roots as possible, with species that will tolerate bare rooting they still respond quicker when soil from the orig spot is included in the pot. I pot into my standard mix of 50% 4-5mm gravel 50% basic potting mix and put them straight out on the the benches in full sun. I give them extra water but apart from that treat like everything else. I always soak the trees in a bucket of water tho dont use any additives (seasol etc) except on the odd occasion.

Something I have found playing around with natives is that I have the most success and the fastest recovery's from the end of july thru to about the end of october/november in my climate. The earlier ones being a bit slower the very latest ones needing a bit more care over the first summer. With another chance around march to may tho these can also need a bit of extra care & are slower to get established.

I intend to use this thread from now on to document some of the haul over time and share my methods and some of the test results with some species that i think show some great potential for use in this great art. I am always interested in hearing possible ways to improve my results. If anyone else would like to share there own collecting methods, especially for the more unusual exotics, underused/unused natives I would really appreciate it.

Matt

[Jamie]

gday Matt

nice little story/article, If I was abloe to collect more I would, I am also scouting out trees in yards, the side of the roads etc. but have always been somewhat reserved in knocking on their door and asking about them, there is one hedge I really want to do this with but will need some muscle to help as it is a rather large clerodendrum hedge which I dont even know if the owner would want removed as it is acting as a screen standing 3m high by around 4m long, I can always ask for cuttings though as they strike very easy from large pieces. (by the way how is your fella? ).

the couple of collecting trips I have been on I have thoroughly enjoyed, Shan had a pry bar that worked a treat making things very easy breaking through thick and heavy roots with limited effort, a solid thick round bar handle around 20-25mm thick and a large 15-20mm thick blade on the end makes even the bigger trees pretty light work, we were getting celtis the day I seen it and thought the wood might have been a little soft, oh how wrong I was when I cut some of the heavy roots off with a hand saw at home! celtis amazed me at how tough they were and how rapid they come back, the trees I collected had practically no fine feeder roots, was trunk chopped at 2 foot tall, I was away from home when we collected them so some measures had to be taken, wrapping the base of the tree with some wet newspaper not that there was any real fine feeders, I think around 3-5 small hair like roots around 150mm long. they were wrapped like this for 4 days after collection before I got home and did something with them, which they went into a seasol bath for a few days then into a moist free draining mix. not one bit of the old soil was there and within a couple of weeks I got my first buds swell on them after really watching them closely. 12 months on I have a couple of trees with some great potential, and I was able to send one down to a mate that has shared with me.

that is one thing I love about bonsai, the fact that most are so willing to share, it is a great way to meet good people and make mates and it also allows sometimes to be able to get some stock that otherwise wouldnt be available in my area. or possibly theirs. another dig I went on I didnt even get a tree for myself, but I was happy to see and help find my mates a couple of trees that had great bases and potential!

I find that I might not collect a heap of trees myself but have some collected trees in my collection, through the likes of mates that are willing to share like myself, plus the fact that when you collect you learn something new all the time, no matter what happens if the tree survives or dies, it is a part of collecting and is one of the risks!
speaking of risks I reckon everyone has had some sort of balaklava ninja story to do with bonsai, whether it is a shifty dig because you couldnt get permission like it can sometimes happens like you said, or if it is just a few cuttings when ya walk down the street. they all make for good stories thats for sure!
I also love hearing good collecting stories, everytime I have gone to Rods there has been a good story or three to listen to, he is a man with a heap of good stories and also a bloke with a big heart in helping out

look forward to reading some of your collection stories mate, Im sure you have a lot, the privet you sent up are ding great aswell as the other ones, the mulberry is powering and the flowering quince are coming along very nice, especially the bigger one you sent I have managed to get a great little trunk line and its pushing well, I would never have gotten into them if you didnt add them in I will get some pics for you on the quince!
thats another thing with collecting and sharing, it can show that species that arent supposed to do well in certain climate can thrive in conditions that arent suitable.

I could keep rambling mate but wont

jamie

[Noramay]

Hi Guys,

I'm wondering what tips you could give me as I have my eye on a few fruit trees, some cherry plums - I think self sowen at mums and I have a friend who is thinking of getting rid of her mulbery, it is a large tree but borers are slowly killing off the top of the tree.
The cherry plums are going to be attacked soon I was thinking of chopping the trees down to about 2 foot and giving the roots a couple of chops, then hope to return end of next winter to dig up.
But the mulbery (have always wanted one) I'm not sure what to do - was thinking of trying an aerial layer now, but wondering about digging it later on - any tips would be appreciated.

Cheers Nora

[JayP]

@jamie

mate all i can say is go and ask about that hedge, i used to walk past a big clero hedge when i was working at bonsai nursery brisbane, i hesitated and hesitated but then i decided i would go and at least ask to put a few layers on it, turns out the day i finally decided to go and ask about it, i noticed they had a brand new driveway and NO hedge, i could have died!! i met the owner as he was admiring his driveway and explained myself, he laughed and said you should have just popped in and asked, he then went on to tell me he would have cut them down to size and dropped them off at my place for me!!! the moral of the story 'nothing ventured, nothing gained'. good luck mate

[BirchMan]

Matt,

I can say i definitely share your thoughts on yamadori, an unwanted piece of decades old, usually free stock is to me too good to turn down, and so i can see this being my primary mode of acquisition. The trick is simply to find the unwanted ones! I guess my botanical id skills are still not top notch, and while i know the key species i'm after, id-ing them in practice is difficult so i don't know what to target. For example, i wouldn't know a "clero" or privet (though i don't think they made it here to WA) by looking at it. So thus far, my experience has been limited to wild olives on crown reserve - easy enough to identify and dig at fairly large sizes, plus they grow in abundance here around eastern Perth.
My next goal is urban landscape junipers, but finding one that's available to dig is the key.. I marvel at some of the stock you guys dig over in the eastern states, i'd be amazed to see maples growing in a yamadori-able area here

Cheers,
Matti

[MattA]

Jamie,

I agree... go and ask! you just never know, they may be planning on ripping it out like the ones Jay was looking at. I am often amazed at the plants people dont like in the garden but put up with it because it was there when they moved in. When you offer to remove it they jump at the chance. Its takes a bit of practice but the more trees you look at & doors you knock on you get to learn which ones you go for & not.

I have a few odd tools that come in really handy for collecting, one being a pry bar with chiseled end with weighted driver, great for cutting tap roots or breaking thru rock The tales are what make the trees even more special, I have a few I hate but cant part with due to the story of how I got them.

Matti,

I am hopeless at ID, I know most of the exotics no worries but the natives that I like and am collecting more of these days elude me. Hopefully as I get some decent photo's there will be members here who can help with a name.

The best place to look for yamadori is around suburbia, especially older suburbs that might be being redeveloped. Its amazing how many potential bonsai are ripped ground & shredded every day of the week just because people dont realise there are folks like us out there who would llooovveeee to take that unwanted 40yr old dwarf conifer, maple, plum, whatever off there hands, we will even dig it out & clean up the mess for them.

Nora,

If you can chop the trees & come back next winter to dig them that is perfect. Digging & cutting the major roots around the tree would also give you a great head start.

With the mulberry, do you want the whole tree or just a layer from one branch? Layers are easy & can be put on now, it should be ready to remove in about 6-12weeks depending on size (up to really big pieces can be done easily). Look for a couple of sections with interesting movement and good taper. If you wanted to try & dig the whole tree I would suggest digging around the base & creating a giant layer at ground level. They move easily but do better on fine new roots than big old ones. This has worked for me with a trunk that was approx 45cm in diameter at ground level, the entire middle was a natural hollow. You need to treat the wood as it rots very quickly, which this tree did until it was no more

I love them and am working on some Shatoot variety, 4cm hardwood cuttings taken last year. This winter they were dug & cut back to the first nodes (about 5-10cm long), root pruned severely (2-3cm left) and replanted in the ground, they are already 1metre tall and if the parent is anything to go by they can make 2-4cm of wood & up to 4m of growth in a year. It all depends on water & food. With 5-10years of constant heavy growth & heavier cutting back I hope to have some really gnarly looking trunks to play with in time with more planted this year. Home grown yamadori with bonus fruit

I would love to hear peoples tips for collecting conifers in general. It is one area that I dont have great success with and I would like to change that. There are a few trees around that I would like to collect but are too good to loose so woudl rather leave until I find a good way to go about it.

Matt

[MattA]

When you first dig the tree try to get a good sized rootball and keep it as intact as possible, tilting & feeding a sheet(hessian, tarp anything that will hold it together) under then rolling back over & completing the procedure, then use a long piece of rope tie the whole lot tightly, making sure to also tie up & around the lower trunk area to help keep the trunk & rootball together. With larger stock I wrap and tie the roots before trying to lift them out of the ground, with smaller plants i often dig & place the entire shovel contents on a piece of cloth and then wrap, really small stuff is broken down & wrapped in wet newspaper.

A tip from another collector that actually makes a huge difference with success rates is to keep the immediate soil around the trunk & all its vegetation intact, this aids in keeping the soil intact when you move it. You do not remove this 'weed' layer until the tree is ready for its first repot, he did have some interesting theories as to why this benfited, I just see the results of faster regeneration. If I am travelling some distance on foot I will break down the soil weight trying to preserve as many roots as possible from the target plant & atleast some core rootball, Lay the roots on wet newspaper & gently wrap. I dont bother tieing really small stuff I just roll up in wet newspaper, roots and plant, they are layed flat on a tray I also carry for putting moss & lichens on.

Give the plants a light spray when you get back to the car if your going to be more than a short time getting them home & into water. Once home, I place all plants into buckets of plain rain water (or my dam for really big stuff) soak for about an hour or 2 with natives, most exotics I have found will tolerate much longer ( even days or a week even for some really tough stuff like privet & bouganvillea). Those plants wrapped entirely in paper are fine not soaked tho can be placed in a suitable sized bowl.

When planting, the smallest are done first then those with the least amount of root on. I then tackle those with plenty of soil and root, I try to remove as much soil as possible for the given species, some you can bare root easy (most deciduous) others wont tolerate it (Conifers, some natives) Everything is planted in my standard bonsai mix (50% gravel 50% basic potting mix), I try to spread the roots out as much as possible and always plant deeper than final level unless the orig ground layer has been retained. Everything (excluding true shade plants) is placed on my benchs in FULL SUN (yet another growers tip that improves regrowth rates), they are watered similarly to the rest of my trees ie when needed. The foliage is sprayed lightly twice a day to keep up humidity & return some of what the roots are not providing via the leaves if any. (With regards full sun, that is between march and november, over summer I provide protection to most of my trees with 50% shade from 11ish.)

[MattA]

When can i start working on my newly dug tree

There is no hard & fast rule with this one, many advise you not work a tree for atleast a year or more to allow it time to regain vigour. However, some species would be so completely rootbound by then as to be affecting the trees health. I have repotted & worked collected trees in as little as 3months or waited as long as 5yrs. Most commonly collected plants will be workable in about 12months time with conifers taking 2 yrs (these are rough minimum times with good collecting practice & aftercare).

The best way to tell if a tree is ready to be worked yet is by looking at it. Does the tree look really healthy, with lots of solid growth? Is the pot full of roots?

If you can answer yes to both those questions and its the normal time to be working that species then I say go for it...
BUT
Dont do both things, either repot & let it grow on or style lightly and repot next season.

The reason for not doing both is the tree will still be adapting from ground to pot culture, if repotting, its time to start sorting out the roots, removing any unwanted, encouraging new ones where needed (eg toothpick method). Be aware that you cannot reduce all of the root mass at once, if there is a large root, take part of it this time & the rest next time. This gives the tree time to grow other feeder roots to compensate. Remember you are trying to get as flat a root profile as possible to fit a shallow pot, it can take 3-4 repots sometimes to reduce the roots enough to fit a final pot. Be in no hurry as the more roots the more growth the quicker your tree gets to fill into the design. As with all sources of stock, once they go into a bonsai pot growth & thickening slows perceptibly.

If its the trees first styling, strongly secure the trunk to pot to avoid any movement & damage to roots while working. Dont try to get to youre final shap all in one go, its less risky to make a major bend over the course of a few months. You often see trees that have had major bends done in one go for demo's or articles etc. It can be done but the stresses are so great that unless you are very experienced it can often end in disaster *SNAP* or die over time because the bark seperated from the branch without you even knowing.

All of the above has been the basic generalities of my ways. From now on I will be using this thread to post about diff individual species i am digging and my experiences/ methods I use for each, starting soon with some of my natives form this spring.

I never discourage anyone from digging a tree, the only thing I do say is, consider your experience. If your a beginner and find a tree worthy of Kokufu, dont risk it, I and many other yamadori nuts wold be only too willing to help you dig it up and see it started on its way to bonsai, just ask at your local club or on here. You wont start learning how easy it is until you start doing it and then:o

Matt