Diatomite Vs Zeolite

[BGM1971]

Hi all
Can anyone tell me difference between Diaomite and Zeolite?
Is one better for Bonsai than the other?
Any information would be great.

[kcpoole]

They are not competitive products but complementary. I use 2/3 Diatomite 2/3 Zeolite in all my trees pots

Diatomite is a diatomacious clay, where Zeolite is a Silica based rock
Diatomite is quite soft and brittle, Zeolite is hard.
Diatomite is Light and porous, Zeolite is heavy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeolite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

the main reason I put Zeolite in the mix is to add some weight, but use seolite rather than crushed granite is that it is also absorbent like diatomite

You could use 100% diatomite or 100% Zeolite if you really wanted to, but the latter would be far to heavy.

Ken

[anttal63]

They both hold water and give as needed, However Zeolite is more able to hold onto nutrients as well. I havent as yet but i believe they would be beneficial in equal parts to the mix. This year i hope to try it.

[Paulneill]

I think what ckpool meant was 1 third zeolight 2 thirds daitomite. Is what he uses and I have heard this is a good mix on this site . But really I think after a lot of research I now know maiden well diatomite is the stuff u want. by all means get zeolight but don't use it on it's own . Also available is mount salvia diatomite but some one correct me if I'm wrong which is not as good as maiden well because of its Ph being alkaline . Which is disappointing cos it's easy for me to obtain .

[kcpoole]

Paul is corect in my mixing ratio and Thansk Ant for the other reason re Nutrient holding. I think that that has something to to with Cation ration of the rock.

I used to use Maidenwell diatomite, but Can no longer get it in Sydney so not use Mt Sylvia brand.

Verry little difference between them apart from colour

Ken

[Damian Bee]

Zeolite has a sickening Cation exchange capacity (CEC) somewhere between 1000 to 1500 making uptake of nutrients more possible. Adding Zeolite at 5% volume to a potting mix of 60% pine bark and 40% sand with a CEC of around 120 will increase its cation exchange capacity by 50% at 60 meq/L of soil (MEQ = milliequivalant). So if KC is adding 30 to 50 % then i am guessing that he owns a damn good chainsaw.

The calculations for working out meq are beyond me as it relies on atomic mass of an element / 1000 x positive charges on a cation, (the positive charges I can't get so I can't complete the equation) so any help here would be great.

Zeolite has high levels of calcium and good levels of potassium and is good for elimination of amonium toxicity and increased Nitrogen uptake.

Diatomite has high levels of Silica which greatly assist resistance to disease, as well as this it is light and helps greatly with water movement, absorbtion and aeration. i am not sure what its CEC is but I would expect that it is low.

The buffer capacity (ability of the mix to withstand changes in Ph levels) for the two products is fairly low or negligible so it would help to add some compost or organic material to make the mix more stable.

[BGM1971]

Thanks for all the information.
I've never tried either of these.
I'm going to buy a bag or two of both and mix them into my mix for re-potting in a couple of month.
I've only just started trying to make up my own soil mix. I've been pretty happy with what I done so far, but it's all about trial and error.
More reading, research, and information can only be beneficial.
I just hope my head doesn't explode with and overload!
Thanks again.
Brad

[nevilleh]

Ken a correction on the description of diatomite and zeolite

Diatomite is 80-90% silica - so is not a clay
Zeolite is a clay


Zeolite minerals are formed at temperatures somewhat greater than normal clays (alteration of volcanic rocks by warm near surface water - or in buried basins) and are aluminosilicates. Normal clays are formed at surface by weathering . As a consequence of zeolite's formation at higher temperature it is harder and has a strong open structure that can accommodate water. So is great for bonsai mixes as it absorbs and holds water for release to the plant over time. As it has a stromng structure it doesn't break down readily over time.

Diatomite is a naturally occurring sedimentary rock forming in marine basins from the accumulation of diatoms, a type of hard shell algae. It is composed of 80-90% silica, so is is tough as well as being light because of its high porosity - which sucks in water. Like zeolite this is a great bonsai soil media.

Grant has been doing experiments with soil mixes recently and has settled on the following mixture - which contains significant proportions of diatomite and zeolite.

Grant's soil mix suggestion .

40% Diatomite
20% zeolite
20% Gravel or crushed brick
20% soil or compressed coconut fibre

Neville

[Damian Bee]

Nice chunk of info Neville.

I hope that we can sort this mess out so everyone who logs on here in the future can get the info straight away.

[melbrackstone]

Damn, I think I got some of that crappy Diatomite that turns to mush. I've been using it for years, (Maidenwell brand,) and last year looked everywhere for it. Found the Mt Sylvia brand at the big pet store, but it's nothing like my old Maidenwell stuff.

It looks more like soft kitty litter that is mostly clay.... is that what others have found?

[kcpoole]

There was a thread that discussed it last year or so and as far as I can tell, it was only 1 batch
My recent purchases (from Enfield produce about 4 months ago) have been fine to use

Ken

ps I test each batch individually for at least a week soaking in water before use to check, Also note the softer stuff had all rounded edges and felt much smoother in the bag.

Ken

[Lane]

Where can these products be purchased from?

At the moment I use the Megumi mix, would it be beneficial to mix in both of these as well for next years potting?

[melbrackstone]

Thanks Ken

I've just joined the site and have a lot of catching up to do. Will put some of this into water and see what happens, but just from seeing what it does to my mix, it's behaving more like clay kitty litter than standard diatomite!

Cheers!

[Reece]

Where can these products be purchased from?

At the moment I use the Megumi mix, would it be beneficial to mix in both of these as well for next years potting?

Definitely beneficial. Diatomite at Enfield produce. It's a pet store that sells all sorts of stuff but they don't sell zeolite. I got mine from all pool shop near Concord but most pool shops should have it because they use it for filtration.....

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Jarad]

Where can these products be purchased from?

At the moment I use the Megumi mix, would it be beneficial to mix in both of these as well for next years potting?

Definitely beneficial. Diatomite at Enfield produce. It's a pet store that sells all sorts of stuff but they don't sell zeolite. I got mine from all pool shop near Concord but most pool shops should have it because they use it for filtration.....

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Orrrrrrrrr you could go buy your Zeolite from Ray Nesci, grab a few trees and also grab a bag of his bonsai mix (which is now my go-to soil).