An interesting JBP technique...

[Scott Roxburgh]

Although I wouldn't advise doing this to anyone's trees, it is an interesting technique.
http://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/201 ... member-me/

Basically, Peter Tea removed all needles in April (our October) and the idea was that it would weaken the tree enough to only produce short spring candles, with small necks.

The resultant growth was surprisingly still quite strong, Peter suggested that this was residual energy from the previous season.

I would imagine that this would have to be a once every few years sort of technique, due to the large strain it would put on the tree's energy levels.

I don't think i'll try it just yet, but it is very interesting to read that the Japanese are still pushing the accepted wisdom.

Have a read and let us know your thoughts...

needles pulled.jpg

after the resultant growth.jpg

[kcpoole]

Hmm Different!
Anyone wanna try it on their own trees?
Ken

[nishiki3]

i think its too late to try it now as my pines have started growing already but i will give it a go in the next day or 2.

[Mojo Moyogi]

OK, just a quick observation, but the tree that had all of it's needles removed, still had some needles and the new needle growth in the "after" photo appear to be longer, not what I would call short or neat or refined anyway. Is there a before pic of this tree that I am missing?

Curious.

Mojo

[MattA]

OK, just a quick observation, but the tree that had all of it's needles removed, still had some needles and the new needle growth in the "after" photo appear to be longer, not what I would call short or neat or refined anyway. Is there a before pic of this tree that I am missing?

Curious.

Mojo

Mojo,

He mentions that the remaining needles were all removed after that pic was taken. With regards needle size, i too thought they looked very long, I can understand his arguments for why that is so but am still thinking to myself... the bloody tree is playing payback... "make me grow all new needles hey..." "I will make them bigger to make up for energy loses"

There is a reason the methods that have been developed in ages past are used.... they work!

Hmm Different!
Anyone wanna try it on their own trees?
Ken

Ken,
If I had any JBP i would try it...
Then again...

I AM CRAZY

Matt

[Joel]

Although I wouldn't advise doing this to anyone's trees, it is an interesting technique.
http://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/201 ... member-me/

Basically, Peter Tea removed all needles in April (our October) and the idea was that it would weaken the tree enough to only produce short spring candles, with small necks.

The resultant growth was surprisingly still quite strong, Peter suggested that this was residual energy from the previous season.

Perhaps he should do it twice in a season like deciduous trees Good luck convincing anybody to try that on a tree of this calibre though!

Joel

[Mojo Moyogi]

OK, just a quick observation, but the tree that had all of it's needles removed, still had some needles and the new needle growth in the "after" photo appear to be longer, not what I would call short or neat or refined anyway. Is there a before pic of this tree that I am missing?

Curious.

Mojo

Mojo,

He mentions that the remaining needles were all removed after that pic was taken. With regards needle size, i too thought they looked very long, I can understand his arguments for why that is so but am still thinking to myself... the bloody tree is playing payback... "make me grow all new needles hey..." "I will make them bigger to make up for energy loses"

There is a reason the methods that have been developed in ages past are used.... they work!


Matt

Thanks for the info Matt, I just skimmed over the blog, missed the bit about all needles being removed after the pic was taken. Despite my doubts that this technique is as effective as long established methods for JBP needle reduction, or Boon's technique, which is the modern benchmark, I'm going to try it with a few sacrificial JBP's and see for myself.

Cheers,
Mojo

[Scott Roxburgh]

I'm sure that Peter is not advocating this as the 'new needle reduction' technique that should be applied to all JBP, more likely he is using this post to show that innovation is alive and well in Japan.

I am unlikely to experiment with this technique, but I'm sure some of the 'bonsai-scientists' within our community will try it out and let us know their results.

I believe that it is probably too late to apply this technique now, but there is always room for some sacrificial lambs.

[63pmp]

Great blog, thanks for the link Scott.

Lots of good information in there on styling and regular care.

Paul

[Tony Bebb]

I have been doing this to some of my more developed Pines for a few years now with good results. One thing that seems different is I don't do it untill the new candles just start to open and have a little bit of green on the needles, so they are already growing. All old needles are removed by plucking to leave the sheath.
The new growth is then tip pruned just like any other tree before the growth and needles are too long. This would normally be late Spring for most and early Summer for others. They don't seem to have pruned the tips in Peter's post. That may have made a difference.

Can only do it to a nice healthy tree.

Give it a go on something that doesn't matter as much.

Tony

[Scott Roxburgh]

Tony, you should put a comment on Peter's blog, I know he will be very interested to know that you have been using this method.

Do you have any before and after shots of pine that you have done this to?

Paul,

You're right, this is one of the best blogs going around, full of great up to the minute japanese info, and peter is really nice bloke too

[Steven]

Great link Scott, thanks!

Noel Summerell told me about this technique a couple of years ago. He asked if I had heard of defoliating a JBP and when I looked shocked he showed me how. Noel removed the needles one at a time to keep the sheath and future buds intact.
His Pines all looked very healthy and his benches are so full that it doesn't look like any have died.

Regards,
Steven

[Tony Bebb]

I'll have a hunt Scott, but I don't think I do.

One word I have always avoided is 'defoliate' with JBP. It is what people remember and think that it can be done. The one thing I stress is that I would not pluck all the older needles untill the new ones are opening. This means that although they are very small, there is still some green needles on the tree, so timing I think is very important.

I talked about it during a demo on Pines a while ago, and a few people came up to me afterwards saying they thought you could not defoliate a pine. It is one thing I made sure I mentioned, but was not heard by all.

You cannot do to a pine what we do to our figs.

Tony

[Craig]

Hi Scott, i recently did this to a JBP, although i had not heard about it before. I have a thin jbp that i completely split the trunk on and created 2 trunks from 1, after that i waited for the new needle buds were about to open and then plucked off ALL old needles completely. The Pine is now growing great and the all new needles from the strong buds are about the same size-34mm- with great healthy green colouring. I am also getting alot of backbudding starting to happen. Cheers mate