Pesticides ?

[dan.e]

Does anyone use a preemptive pesticide ? I've heard of a mix of pyrethrum ,neem oil and sulphurnated oil for certain crops would this work on bonsai trees?

[kcpoole]

The only thing I use is Confidor and i use it when i see something on the trees I do not want. (mainly lace buyg on Azaleas, and scale on everything else.

Spray with lime sulfur diluted solution every now and again to stop and fungus and a Yates fungicide if i see any signs of it.

Ken

[dan.e]

Ok thanks kcpoole much appreciated

[shibui]

I don't like the idea of precautionary treatments. That adds unnecessary chemicals to the environment, wastes resources and probably encourages resistance in the pests. I would much rather treat any problem WHEN it occurs.

[dansai]

Most pyrethrum you get now is synthetic so I agree with Shibui there. You can however get natural pyrethrum or make your own.

Neem Oil is something I used to use many years ago about once a month on my orchids and I found it effective at preventing pests. It's a natural product that is harmless to plants and most animals, (some aquatic animals may be effected) and is broken down by microbes in the soil. It is used in organic and biodynamic farming.

[dan.e]

Thanks Neil and dansai I have a few spider webs on my plants I think I will try some confidor it looks like a lot of people on here are using it I'm not sure if it's mites or just spiders ,I thought spider mites liked dry conditions and I water daily and wouldn't consider my plants to be dry

[dan.e]

Dansai I thought neem oil was used as a adherent for other pesticides ?

[dansai]

A quick google search will show quite a number of uses for neem oil, including insect repellant and pesticide.

[treeman]

Neem oil is a bit of a joke. Use a copper based spray or lime sulphur on your bare branches to kill spores or eggs. Malathion or Rogor or confidor (by the way buy ''Congard'' from Masters as its the same thing and half the outrageous price of confidor) for small bugs. Carbaryl for caterpillars. (you can still buy it at Masters).
There is not a great deal of evidence that using these ''mild'' pesticides does much damage if any to the environment yet due to the continuing dumbing down of pest control pushed by shows like Gardening Australia and various radio shows where the host usually does not know the first thing about horticulture, and push rediculous things like garlic spray etc, It's getting harder and harder to find chems which actually work in protecting valuable crops like bonsai and orchids etc.

[Mojo Moyogi]

I don't like the idea of precautionary treatments. That adds unnecessary chemicals to the environment, wastes resources and probably encourages resistance in the pests. I would much rather treat any problem WHEN it occurs.

Seconded. Excellent advice.

Neem oil is a bit of a joke. Use a copper based spray or lime sulphur on your bare branches to kill spores or eggs. Malathion or Rogor or confidor (by the way buy ''Congard'' from Masters as its the same thing and half the outrageous price of confidor) for small bugs. Carbaryl for caterpillars. (you can still buy it at Masters).
There is not a great deal of evidence that using these ''mild'' pesticides does much damage if any to the environment yet due to the continuing dumbing down of pest control pushed by shows like Gardening Australia and various radio shows where the host usually does not know the first thing about horticulture, and push rediculous things like garlic spray etc, It's getting harder and harder to find chems which actually work in protecting valuable crops like bonsai and orchids etc.

I'll stick to my regimen of natural mumbo-jumbo and my countless other baseless lefty nonsenses.

Cheers,
Mojo

[Rory]

I don't like the idea of precautionary treatments. That adds unnecessary chemicals to the environment, wastes resources and probably encourages resistance in the pests. I would much rather treat any problem WHEN it occurs.

Well said. Personally, I have the exact same philosophy.

And, just make sure that just because you see a spider web, that it isn't a bad spider web, like spider mites, which are deadest tiny. I have a few spider webs on my bonsai, and they are spiders that I've occasionally noticed are eating little bugs on the trees. These guys are about half the size of your fingernail and will usually have their homes in curled up leaves near their webbing. If they don't catch anything in the webbing they will often forage for food on the branches, such as little insects. After all, nature works in both ways, for and against 'pests'. One things "pest" is another things saviour, so to speak. It is a giant circle of life. But, it is like taking anti-biotics. Technically if you continually take them, you may ward off nasty bacteria yes... but the resistance they will develop to this over time, will be devastating next time you are exposed to bacteria that has evolved to fight them. It is the exact same evolutionary trait that applies to all living things. Confidor is best to use, as I have never lost a tree to confidor, but I personally would only use it when you see or notice a problem. After all, just remember, if you have an infestation of say... thrips, confidor might help... but if you have the time, just pick 'em off with your hands and squish them. Otherwise they are just going to leave after you spray the insecticide on your tree and come back later or move onto another tree in time. Same as borers or termites etc etc.

If you live in a bushy area, generally you wont have a bad cockroach problem, because the cockroaches are usually eaten by all the natural predators like spiders etc etc. Thus, when my wife screams at me to get rid of the spider webs, I see it as a good thing, ... let those hairy long legged suckers eat the bad suckers.

[dan.e]

Thanks for the advice my trees still look healthy so as recommended I will wait till I see a problem the spiders seem to be just spiders which there are plenty of up here in the northern rivers I was just wondering what everyone else was doing , I also heard ladybugs eat spider mites ,may be bs anyone else heard this

[dansai]

Yes the larvae of ladybugs eat aphids and other "pests". When dealing with pests and pesticides it is useful to remember that like antibiotics, most pesticides are not highly selective and will kill the good and the bad, ugly or not. Most insects that are considered pests have a high rate of reproduction and the predators that eat them will have a much lower rate so with a general pesticide that kills all things the pests will generally be the first to return. A high level of pesticide use is only committing you to a continued high use of pesticide.

Prevention of pests is far better and these include good ventilation, appropriate watering and good healthy trees. Tonics like seaweed extracts and compost teas will strengthen your tree and make them more resilient to pests. Modern thought and best practice on pests is to keep plants healthy, keep the growing area free of weeds and plant debris, use of biological controls (introducing predatory bugs, google search Bugs for Bugs, probably not viable for small collections) and observations of pest numbers to determine if and when to use pesticide. So like Shibui, Mojo, and Bonsaibuddyman have suggested only use when necessary.

Personally I had great success with neem oil and only when the place I got it from no longer stocked it did I start to have problems with pests and then I mainly either squished them with fingers (small caterpillars and aphids), pliers (grasshoppers) or a toothbrush with metho (scale). I have only started using pesticides recently due to a much larger stock levels and then only when necessary. I have even been known to show a grasshopper a pair of pliers and tell it that I will use it on him and all his friends if they stay in the shade house. I didn't see another grasshopper for quite some time after.

[treeman]

Yes the larvae of ladybugs eat aphids and other "pests".

Yes they do but there are never enough (if any) to do the job so you need to spray any way.

When dealing with pests and pesticides it is useful to remember that like antibiotics, most pesticides are not highly selective and will kill the good and the bad, ugly or not. Most insects that are considered pests have a high rate of reproduction and the predators that eat them will have a much lower rate so with a general pesticide that kills all things the pests will generally be the first to return.

So by this logic we should not spray when we see a pest as they will just return minus the predators

A high level of pesticide use is only committing you to a continued high use of pesticide.

But that means the less you use the less pests you'll see.

Prevention of pests is far better and these include good ventilation, appropriate watering and good healthy trees. Tonics like seaweed extracts and compost teas will strengthen your tree and make them more resilient to pests. Modern thought and best practice on pests is to keep plants healthy, keep the growing area free of weeds and plant debris

,
I agree with this

use of biological controls (introducing predatory bugs, google search Bugs for Bugs, probably not viable for small collections)

This only really works in an enclosed area.

[dan.e]

Thanks again for the advice