Thoughts on Collected Australian native material.

[Elmar]

It's amazing hearing that you guys struggle to collect; what hope do I have!?!
To tell you the truth I'd love to be involved - I see numerous posts where you appear to just grab a tree and shove it into a wooden box sprinkle it with a little Seasol and voila, one perfectly adorable Pre-Bonsai...
Lol

I have seen some Hakea that don't grow very tall but have a fantastic bark and twisted branches that look amazing! I have also seen massive paperbark who's bark looks like a book being 'flicked', thick and amazing as well, but like Josh said, there huge! I guess we don't have the mountain ranges where Yamadori are old and twisted and gnarly but small...


Cheers
Elmar

[JaseH]

Don't get me wrong there is plenty of good/great stock out there but not like there used to be in Japan.

Fixed for you Josh

Just a bit of note on this - yamadori juniper is now virtually extinct in Japan with no hope of ever recovering - not for hundreds of years anyhow. Its now illegal to collect from the wild.

Having said that I would love to get into some of the old forests in Tassie as I think there would be incredible stock in there.

I'm all for native yamadori collection here in Aust. but I think we need to tread very carefully and respect area's where growth is slow and very old - such as mountain areas in Tassie. This growth does not just bounce back and probably never will once its removed. I'd rather see this stuff in its natural environment than in someones backyard.

But there is plenty of common species in not so delicate environments that I cant see a problem with

[Josh]

Don't get me wrong there is plenty of good/great stock out there but not like there used to be in Japan.

Fixed for you Josh

Just a bit of note on this - yamadori juniper is now virtually extinct in Japan with no hope of ever recovering - not for hundreds of years anyhow. Its now illegal to collect from the wild.

Having said that I would love to get into some of the old forests in Tassie as I think there would be incredible stock in there.

I'm all for native yamadori collection here in Aust. but I think we need to tread very carefully and respect area's where growth is slow and very old - such as mountain areas in Tassie. This growth does not just bounce back and probably never will once its removed. I'd rather see this stuff in its natural environment than in someones backyard.

But there is plenty of common species in not so delicate environments that I cant see a problem with

Totally agree Jase. I do not collect anything from bushland. You know where I get my trees from and it has no impact on the environment. My comment re tassie was a little tongue in cheek as this is incredible country with some amazing trees still left standing.

Josh.

[kcpoole]

But there is plenty of common species in not so delicate environments that I cant see a problem with

The other places I have no problem with collection is new housing estates.
Near me they are buldozing the bush to put up new houses and so many wonderful natives are being ripped out it is criminal

If I can save some of them, I do,

Ken

[JaseH]

Totally agree Jase. I do not collect anything from bushland. You know where I get my trees from and it has no impact on the environment. My comment re tassie was a little tongue in cheek as this is incredible country with some amazing trees still left standing.

Josh.

Yep, was more for the benefit of others reading the thread that might get a rush of blood!

[Rory]

The greatest tragedy about Tasmania, and to a lesser extent on the mainland, was the probable extinction of the Thylacine (Tassie tiger).

The Huon Pine and many others are evidence of our disgusting past, nearly wiping out the beautiful tree from logging. But the Thylacine is by far the saddest in my opinion.

At least there is hope with the De-Extinction plans that have been worked on for many years. It would have had to have been one of the most beautiful animals we had. And to think, we wiped them out because we wanted our sheep safe.

There is always hope, but... primarily science :
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles. ... xtinction/

[Andrew F]

The other places I have no problem with collection is new housing estates.
Near me they are buldozing the bush to put up new houses and so many wonderful natives are being ripped out it is criminal

If I can save some of them, I do,

Ken

If its ok for them to demolish it, its fair game for collection.

[wattynine]

I wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are about Aussie native collected material. You as the community of this forum and a collective of the bonsai community as a whole, would there would be interest to use native species if there were more collected Australian native material being used and utilised in Australia for bonsai?

Would love to hear your thoughts

Wow, what a topic close to my heart, glad it's up for discussion.

The question posed, is would we use more native material if there was more Australian yamadori being used in Australian bonsai?
I really don't think we would, I hope we would be using it anyway.
I would hazard a guess that each of us with a collection has at least one native "to give it a go" and I would think the interest in Australian Natives is on the increase as interest in Australian bonsai is on the increase.
I see lots of talk on his forum regarding Mels, Calls, and Casua's and the like and it is with this forums assistance that these trees are success stories. I and I hope many of you will continue trialling with Australian Native Bonsai purely for the love of the two subject matters.
Now my thoughts on Australian collected material. Read any of my posts and I think it's a dead giveaway, LUV THE STUFF.
I have, only, a great collection of Australian Natives yamadori and I will do everything in my power to create great bonsai from them (and again with great credit to this website and others similar for knowledge and inspiration.)
On the matter of removing them from the wild, I have been lucky enough to collect trees mostly from creek banks or beds fairly close to the roadside and most of these sites have been since, either by nature or by man, demolished. So I feel I have done a justice by saving these trees ( yes, I am going to keep telling myself that).
I researched bonsai and trees for two years before I removed my first yamadori and I continue to study a tree prior to removal sometimes for up to 2 years. All I am saying is we can absolutely not take removing trees from the wild lightly, and if in doubt, admire and move on.

So in summary I don't think the use of yamadori alone will necessarily increase our interest but the promotion of Australian Natives as good bonsai and the use and examples of well styled Australian Native Bonsai natives that we can aspire to as we would with many non-natives.

Thanks for reading
avagooweegend
Watty

[phillicondor]

I wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are about Aussie native collected material. You as the community of this forum and a collective of the bonsai community as a whole, would there would be interest to use native species if there were more collected Australian native material being used and utilised in Australia for bonsai?

Would love to hear your thoughts

Wow, what a topic close to my heart, glad it's up for discussion.

The question posed, is would we use more native material if there was more Australian yamadori being used in Australian bonsai?
I really don't think we would, I hope we would be using it anyway.
I would hazard a guess that each of us with a collection has at least one native "to give it a go" and I would think the interest in Australian Natives is on the increase as interest in Australian bonsai is on the increase.
I see lots of talk on his forum regarding Mels, Calls, and Casua's and the like and it is with this forums assistance that these trees are success stories. I and I hope many of you will continue trialling with Australian Native Bonsai purely for the love of the two subject matters.
Now my thoughts on Australian collected material. Read any of my posts and I think it's a dead giveaway, LUV THE STUFF.
I have, only, a great collection of Australian Natives yamadori and I will do everything in my power to create great bonsai from them (and again with great credit to this website and others similar for knowledge and inspiration.)
On the matter of removing them from the wild, I have been lucky enough to collect trees mostly from creek banks or beds fairly close to the roadside and most of these sites have been since, either by nature or by man, demolished. So I feel I have done a justice by saving these trees ( yes, I am going to keep telling myself that).
I researched bonsai and trees for two years before I removed my first yamadori and I continue to study a tree prior to removal sometimes for up to 2 years. All I am saying is we can absolutely not take removing trees from the wild lightly, and if in doubt, admire and move on.

So in summary I don't think the use of yamadori alone will necessarily increase our interest but the promotion of Australian Natives as good bonsai and the use and examples of well styled Australian Native Bonsai natives that we can aspire to as we would with many non-natives.

Thanks for reading
avagooweegend
Watty

We definitely need some links to some inspirational native bonsai here.

I'm pretty new to this game but it seems like we need to get bonsai clubs to approach councils or whoever we need permission from and go to areas about to be demolished and take every thing native, be it bonsai quality or not and just work on getting native collection Sussed. I've just been camping at the redcliff campground near brooms head in the yuraygir national park. It's coastal heathland? Some of the tea trees and paperbarks look like they could be chucked straight in a bonsai pot. I'll go for a drive tomorrow and take some photos.

[NAHamilton]

I'd definitely be interested in a couple.

Obviously the right way of going about it is important in terms of where they are coming from and by the sounds of it you (Hugh) are confident in your abilities to collect and keep alive.

Reading between the lines I'm assuming this is an idea of a business venture? Factoring in your time to collect, cost of petrol, tools, ferts, water, soil, space pot and time, whilst establishing, could put the cost out of many peoples reach (I may change my interest into just one ) I say this given the fact that native bonsai is still somewhat of a new frontier and am extremely large one at that. Personally my spending has gone into the low hundreds for individual trees, but things like Tridents, Figs and Junipers that there is a wealth of information surrounding.

Still in saying all of that, I'll happily pre order a nice thick trunked Baeckea from you.

Cheers
Nigel

[Jarad]

I'm pretty new to this game but it seems like we need to get bonsai clubs to approach councils or whoever we need permission from and go to areas about to be demolished and take every thing native, be it bonsai quality or not and just work on getting native collection Sussed.

Good idea, but another avenue would be to keep an eye on your local council development application page to see where the new developments are happening. Being in civil engineering, I can tell you that sometimes finding the right person to talk to (in council) can be an absolute nightmare. Or make friends with someone that works for the large developers or builders and ask them to give you tips on potential collection grounds

If you're in western Sydney, there are developments happening everywhere, all you'd have to do is drive for 10 minutes and you would find something (especially in Blacktown City Council).

[Josh]

I'm pretty new to this game but it seems like we need to get bonsai clubs to approach councils or whoever we need permission from and go to areas about to be demolished and take every thing native, be it bonsai quality or not and just work on getting native collection Sussed.

Good idea, but another avenue would be to keep an eye on your local council development application page to see where the new developments are happening. Being in civil engineering, I can tell you that sometimes finding the right person to talk to (in council) can be an absolute nightmare. Or make friends with someone that works for the large developers or builders and ask them to give you tips on potential collection grounds

If you're in western Sydney, there are developments happening everywhere, all you'd have to do is drive for 10 minutes and you would find something (especially in Blacktown City Council).

Getting permission to access a work site can be near impossible because of the legality involved. If you hurt yourself who's responsible. I know we all say "we are responsible" but that doesn't usually cut it. I have asked numerous times and been told no only to watch them burn dozens of trees. It's stupid but that's the way society is these days.

Josh

[Rory]

Getting permission to access a work site can be near impossible because of the legality involved. If you hurt yourself who's responsible. I know we all say "we are responsible" but that doesn't usually cut it. I have asked numerous times and been told no only to watch them burn dozens of trees. It's stupid but that's the way society is these days.

Josh

Yeah, Josh is right on the money on this one. Most councils will not approve it, for that exact reason. The liability is the problem, even if you sign a waiver it means nothing, you can still sue the council if something happens to you. Private land is really the only way to go.

[fossil finder]

Don't talk to management as you will nearly always get a knockback. I spotted a council worker recently chainsawing swamp cypress. I rocked up with a........partly..... contrived sob story about out how hard I have been looking for swampies. He asked how many i needed. 60 cuttings later..........

Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk

[Rory]

One thing I didn't comment was... an awesome to you if you can manage this Hugh. I remember trying to steer Ash and you in this direction and anyone else that would listen.

Ray Nesci Bonsai / Bonsai South / Padre Pio just do not have much native stock. Of course, you can visit a wildflower nursery, or a native nursery, but often the roots have never been worked and the stock is not that great regardless. Many times I have mentioned this to these nurserymen, but haven't been supported with much enthusiasm at all and fallen on deaf ears. It is certainly a valuable proposal to whomever undertakes it in my opnion. Even just to grow more natives as nursery grown stock would be awesome too. I am just so sick of the reliance on exotics, because most natives I have loved to try I have just had to grow from scratch myself.

Eucalyptus/Angophora
Casuarina
Melalueca/Callistemon
Acacia
Banskia
...yadda yadda yadda, you know the rest.